General Height

Please use this page as a 'free for all' to talk about height in general. Stuff like average heights in countries, how height affects your job and how people perceive height etc or any suggestions for new heights or height quotes you find for stars not already added to the site. If you want to request a height to be added, please mention it on the Request page.

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Sally said on 16/Aug/17
@ Nik & @ Sandy Cowell

I miss the two of you. I hope you two are still on here. I apologize for not addressing any comments your way in the last couple weeks. If the two of you are willing, I would like to resume our conversations rather than the trivial debates I have been participating in lately.

Sandy, I am hoping you're gaining strength since you don't have to commute to the chemist as often as you were during the previous few months. Nik, I thought of you a week or so ago when I happened to see the score of the 8/Aug/17 Manchester United vs Real Madrid match. Sorry it didn't turn out in your favor.

BTW, Clayton has left for the Air Force. Like you said, Sandy, if it wasn't for Clayton, we never would have met.

Cheers!
Sally said on 16/Aug/17
@ Triplescrew

(Part 2) You must think you are very clever by attempting to make me defend my self-characterization of being "ultra-tall" while at the same time arguing that the average central Wisconsin white male between the ages of 20-50 is between 5'11" and 6'0". These two propositions are not mutually exclusive. I believe you are simply trying to create drama.
Canson said on 16/Aug/17
@Edwin: you're a pretty good height imho. 193.1 is very tall but you're still very comfortable. I'm only mildly taller than you (6'4.3 avg at night) and don't really have any issues with my height although if I had to choose between being 1/2-3/4" taller (6'5) or being an inch shorter I would take 6'3" only because I'm not a pro athlete and don't need the added height. However even 6'5 isn't terrible (I wake up a hair over it now). Now any higher than 6'5" I would surely not want but only because the problems associated with it
Ben said on 16/Aug/17
Elvira, you're in the 99.99999999 percentile...isch..
You should embrace your height, not act insecure, only insecure men won't date you. Height should not have an influence on our society. It would be awesome to have a woman your height! :))
Sally said on 16/Aug/17
@ Triplescrew

I will not be wasting my precious time posting a YouTube video to prove my height to someone who cannot even be bothered to accurately read my comments. In several previous posts I wrote the average white man aged 20-50 in central Wisconsin is between 5'11"-6'0". I also said this specific male sub-group is probably closer to 5'11" than 6'0", but the average falls somewhere between these two figures. At 5'11.5" I am approximately 5.5" taller than the typical central Wisconsin female between the ages of 20-50. I could include younger women in this group, as women generally reach their adult height at younger ages than men. If I was to include all men, my male average would be somewhat shorter. I am taller than most men in my area. I believe this makes me "ultra tall." Apparently you do not like that description. Call it what you wish. BTW I do not have access to a stadiometer without a doctor appointment, and I have no idea how to post to YouTube without my daughter's help, and she thinks this whole conversation is completely ridiculous.
Leah said on 16/Aug/17
@Elvira.

Are u a woman. 6ft 6.5 is extremely tall even for a man, you would be taller than most men in the world. Because the Netherlands is the tallest nation in the earth, I think ladies over 6'4" is common. Do u have a bf, do u like men shorter than you. I'm 5'9 1/2"
Leah said on 16/Aug/17
@Elvira.

Are u a woman. 6ft 6.5 is extremely tall even for a man, you would be taller than most men in the world. Because the Netherlands is the tallest nation in the earth, I think ladies over 6'4" is common. Do u have a bf, do u like men shorter than you. I'm 5'9 1/2"
Sally said on 16/Aug/17
@ Mahfuj

You are right. Many men are close to my height or taller, but I am a woman. 5'11.5" is very tall for a woman. Of course, a small minority of women are taller than me too.
Leah said on 16/Aug/17
@Elvira.

Are u a woman. 6ft 6.5 is extremely tall even for a man, you would be taller than most men in the world. Because the Netherlands is the tallest nation in the earth, I think ladies over 6'4" is common. Do u have a bf, do u like men shorter than you. I'm 5'9 1/2"
Sally said on 16/Aug/17
@ Edwin

You are a fine height. You should not be concerned that you are much taller than your 168 cm mother. Many men are much taller than their mothers. I wouldn't worry about towering over women. Many men do. My weight is irrelevant to this conversation. Good luck!
Sally said on 16/Aug/17
@ Leah

Yes, Leah, many women wear open-toed sandals, jewelry, makeup, and nail polish. Heels are less common as this is a more casual area of the US.
@6'1.5 said on 16/Aug/17
Elvira said on 14/Aug/17
Hi, i am Elvira and i come form the Netherlands. I am about 6ft6.5 and i have never seen a woman taller than me. My father is 6ft8 and my mother is 6ft2, so my height isn t strange for my family...but i really can t stand my body. What is my percentile?

You are taller than 99.9% of the world's population!
anon said on 16/Aug/17
This is basically how I see height ranges. Does anyone agree with me?

For men:

xxx-169cm - Short
170-179cm - Below Average
180-189cm - Average
190-199cm - Above Average
200-xxxcm - Tall

For women:
xxx-149cm - Short
150-159cm - Below Average
160-169cm - Average
170-179cm - Above Average
180-xxxcm - Tall
176.2 said on 16/Aug/17
My Inseam is 86.5cms or 34". I'm almost 5ft 9.5 at night.
Would you guys say it's normal for my height and what are your stats?
176.2 said on 16/Aug/17
@Bobby
Trump used to to be 6ft 4.5 oob in Nike Shocks 50 years ago. IMO claiming 6ft 4 on paper isn't a big lie these days. Every guy does it!
Canson said on 15/Aug/17
@Matt179: Slim is actually defending you. Technically it's fine to claim a morning height but that's what you are claiming. 5'10.5 isn't even an average height for you. You said as I suspected previously you're 5'10.75 out of bed 5'10 at night that's a legit 5'10. But the diff between the two is nothing you're not any diff at 5'10 than 5'10.5. All it does is gives you the benefit to round up to 5'11. And for you to get guessed 5'11 isn't hard. People lie esp in that range where you are tons of 5'10 guys claim 6'0" tons of guys an inch smaller claim more your height. But you are much more hones than someone doing all of that
Lak said on 15/Aug/17
Please Guys guess our height
Greg not you hhhh
Click Here
Double G said on 15/Aug/17
@Matt179 I'm also 1,79 barefoot and I reach the same height than you, aproximately, whith shoes on, and I can tell you that, at least in my country (from Southern Europe), it is considered to be above average height: with 5'11.7 or .8 you are taller than about the 66-69% of males and about the 90-94% of females. The other 30-34% of males and the other 6-8% of females are over 6'. And just a minority of guys here (I can't guess the percentage) are 7' or over 7 foot tall - and I guess a 0% for girls to be 7' or over that.

So our height its not that bad. I do feel short sometimes here, but just sometimes or even rarely. To be 1,82 here is to be like 6-7cm taller than average, or even 8cm...However, there are a lot of guys over 6' here.

And yes, 6'3 should be quite gigantic...I think the ideal height for males is 6'1 or 6'1 and a corner. I believe that 6'2 or more is a problematic height. If you are 6'2, for instance, you cannot pilot a helicopter. Whatever, the point is 6'3 it is tall, even a problematic condition sometimes. The same for 6'4, 6'5 and 6'6 - problematicaly tall, but not dramatically problematic. The drama starts when over 7': infections can occur, among other risks; problems that are unthinkable for the whole six foot ranges, even for the latter ones (6'7-6'11).
Kylett said on 15/Aug/17
@Edwin stop it dude u aint 6'4 what you care so much about it care about your 6'1 real height
Double G said on 15/Aug/17
@Canson I'm very close to 1m80 barefoot, but footwear I give a 1m81-82 impression, and with boots I'm close to 6'1 if not 6'1. I suffer from flat feet and while this condition affects height, I use flat feet insoles not only to look taller, but because I can walk better with them...So I guess its quite credible If I wear insoles that footwear I'm like 2 cm 'taller' than barefoot. However, there is not too much difference between 1,79-80 and 81-82, so no matter If I claim 5'11.5 or 5'11.7 to people they can believe that to be my height (despite in reality I'm 1,80 or so barefoot). But, of course, I've never claim to be 6 ft or over 6', because I know I'm a little under 6' footwear, and an inch or an inch and a corner shorter than 6' when barefoot.
Greg said on 15/Aug/17
@Matt179 idk why people on here got to give everybody a hard time, you are basically and almost 5'11 guy. A small round up during the hours when people usually see you isn't a crime by any means.
Johan said on 15/Aug/17
lynxy said on 13/Aug/17
What would everyone's ideal height be? Mine would be 190cm at night. Can claim 6'3 so comfortably taller than average, but not too tall.


I think of it more as a range. 6'-6'4" is in my opinion the best range to be as you're tall but have no problems in everyday life.

5'11" and 6'5" are also good heights and maybe 5'10" and 6'6" as well although I feel 5'10" is getting on the short side and 6'6" getting too tall.

So anyone between 6' and 6'4" ( 183 cm - 194 cm) has a perfect height.


For women I think the ideal is the range 5'5"- 5'10". Women under 5'5" tend to look too short to me ( w/o heels) although some live in heels. Women over 5'10" tend to be really gangly and skinny or built like a linebacker.
Ben said on 15/Aug/17
Canson, I've measured myself quite a few times after 6 hours and gets 179, sometimes a bit over it.
Slim183 said on 15/Aug/17
Ok, I didn't mean to heat things up.
At 179 you still edge out 60% of grown men in the west, give or take a sum.
DruceLee said on 15/Aug/17
@Bobby haha so you didint grow haha ofcourse you are still 177cm
Chaerlz said on 15/Aug/17
Sorry, my mistake. I didn't realize that the comments are moderated.
Greg said on 14/Aug/17
@Del Mar ah u fortunately I can't find it, think it got deleted on my old phone. Thinking I'm going to just take a squad picture of us all standing and see who comes closest to guessing the various heights .
Greg said on 14/Aug/17
@Del Mar hey it's G, I'm posting from a different device but yeah I'm all game for it. Got to take some recent pictures with my group of friends the last ones I have are like over a year old. Yeah I do manage to hold my own even against 6'2/6'3 guys. I only started to feel towered by guys near or at 6'4 range. I'm usually guessed taller, occasionally I'll get guessed shorter but that's from pictures like once someone guessed me at 5'7 when my eye level is a bit over 5'6, that would be ridiculous if it was only an inch or so from my eyes to the top of head, would be some sort of alien πŸ˜‚. And nice 6'0,5" see problem is a lot of my friends over exaggerate on their height. Let me search around I think there's a picture of me walking alongside my legit 6 foot friend if I can find it.
Canson said on 14/Aug/17
@Ben: Normal height is afternoon or evening as Rob has said it very much that it doesn't differ much maybe 1/8" if we are talking early afternoon but i have found that after maybe 6-7 hours on your feet the difference is very minimal like a mm or two if you've been active for most of the day. So examples for Matt179 and You if you dip to 5'10 1/8 and 5'10 flat you aren't really 5'10.5. If the 1/4 is an absolute low then it makes sense to say 1/2. Sure you could claim it but what is the point? You're really only fooling yourself into believe in its higher. I'd say if 5'10.25 is an absolute low or maybe a low some days and not others where you may still be a bit over it and you don't come below that mark then 5'10.5 is appropriate. Like if you fall to 3/8 or maybe between 1/4-3/8 then it's fair claim. Falling all the way daily to the full number or 1/8" really is not a legit 1/2". Not trying to tell you how to claim because I'm not one of them but that's a morning height.
c-mo said on 14/Aug/17
Bobby said on 13/Aug/17
@Lynxy, my height is 178cm, or 5'10. I would ideally like to be 2-3 inches taller, so like a solid 183 to 185cm. I want to be taller than I am now but not so much taller that it'll be difficult to gain muscle and fill out my physique. The best bodybuilding heights are 5'10-6'1, anything taller and it gets more difficult to gain muscle mass. I wanna go from above average height to solid tall too.

-------------------------------------------------

you are not above average height though
Elvira said on 14/Aug/17
Hi, i am Elvira and i come form the Netherlands. I am about 6ft6.5 and i have never seen a woman taller than me. My father is 6ft8 and my mother is 6ft2, so my height isn t strange for my family...but i really can t stand my body. What is my percentile?
QiuTV said on 14/Aug/17
How much height increase do nike air max tavas give?
Canson said on 14/Aug/17
@Slim182: an attack on someone because they say he isn't as tall as he is? Really? That sounds more like a personal problem there or a matter of insecurity. It's just a number. If he dips to 5'10" then he is closer to 5'10 or right at it for some point in the day as well. He was the one that said e dips to 5'10. So if he said it that's what he is. Now excuses are being made to justify a different height loss patter or why he is taller
Wolf said on 14/Aug/17
Click Here Rob, how tall is the fella on the right next to G-Eazy? Click Here Here's him and Tyga.

He's listed at 6'2" on IMDb, but he looks nowhere near that tall.
Editor Rob: he said 1.85m for his height 8 months ago.
Edwin said on 14/Aug/17
Where would a 5'11.5" woman come up to on a 6'4" man. If they both stand face to face, barefoot on level floor.
Bobby said on 14/Aug/17
@Arch Stanton, well, for simplicity sakes, if you give your height in centimetrs, you won't says 185.5cm, you'll say 185cm and they'll understand you're saying you are 6'1. You also won't say 177.8cm, you'll say 178cm because that's easier to say. It's mostly for convenience than anything else. You don't have to be laser accurate.
the Slav said on 14/Aug/17
@don't know what to claim (5'11)

6'6? Alright lol
Canson said on 14/Aug/17
@lynxy: for me personally (I'm a strong 6'4), I would say ideal for a tall man is maybe 6'3 or a solid 6'4 (maybe someone who dips to around 6'3 3/4-6'4 at night). That's just enough to keep you under 6'5" in most shoes. Not that 6'5 is terrible height (I wake up a small hair over 6'5) but I'd say anything above like 6'6 or above is where's the problems become enhanced especially if the person isn't a pro athlete or some type of rich celeb where they could afford life at that height or need the height for some reason
Luca said on 14/Aug/17
Rob,what is your max out of bed height? (In cms and mms)
Editor Rob: using the wall measurement, I did this year once get close to 175.0, but normally around 174.8 is a common first thing measurement the other few times I tested it.
Matt179 said on 14/Aug/17
@Slim 182 cm Who cares really lol? Im 179cm exactly at 4pm on a stadiometer. Do you really think people can tell 0.25 inch of height? LOL

I probably wake up at 5foot10.75,5foot10.85.

I once measure myself at 11pm before going to sleep and i was 5foot10 flat on the dot.

All i know is in the past people ask my height and i said 5foot11. No one ever question this. Anyway with the shoes i wear these days i reach 5foot11.85. So its still above average.

People are delusional here, That lynxy saying 6'3 taller than average but not too tall. LOL AT 6foot3 barefoot your a giant!Its tall like hell. Probably some 16 years old teen, there seem to be alot on this website.
Canson said on 13/Aug/17
@DoubleG: varies depending on footwear. But claiming a shoe height is kinda pointless. If you claim your actual height people will deduce that your an amount taller in shoes. Everyone is. And Shoes aren't part of your body
Canson said on 13/Aug/17
@Ben: I think average height here is misunderstood. Meaning what you average on a daily basis. You will lose 1/2" in no less than maybe 3 or so hours (I see some here where it's 2 and for me maybe 2-2.5). So I'd say If your low is 5'10 1/8 you are not 5'10.5 truthfully. But If 5'10.25 is your nighttime low that's probably fair enough. But it's your height I guess you can claim how you desire.

@Slim182: well he has said before he is 5'10.75 out of bed and 5'10 at night. I am 6+" taller and don't lose an inch normally so find it hard to believe when you have guys my height 6'4" and even guys like Ali Baba and SJH 6'6 and 6'7 along with Christian at 6'5" that don't lose a full inch that Matt does. I believe 5'10.75 out of bed and to say you think he inaccurately measured at 5'10.75 that's just giving him benefit of the doubt in essence. If he dips to 5'10 at night flat that's what he is. Sure you can say a claim of maybe 5'10.25 like you say but saying 5'10.5 when you are that height less than an hour or a full hour out of bed is a bit high imho. That's almost inflating a bit honestly esp if 5'10" flat is a normal low because you can dip below that in a day when you've been on your feet longer as an absolute low.
Kourosh said on 13/Aug/17
Rob, last night i decided to measured myself after very long time at late night. And, i measured myself at 176.4 cm which i used to be dead on 176.00 or 176.1 cm.

Is this fluctuation going up and down in our heights normal?
Editor Rob: 3mm or so isn't much, but sometimes it can be better overall hydration or the discs just weren't under quite as much strain as normal.

I can find personally 1-2mm variation at night.
G 5'11 said on 13/Aug/17
@8Teen you're basically a legit 5'11, no one is going to spot a 1/4th of an inch at your low.. You probably edge out half the guys who claim 5'11. Yeah like Rob said you can say either 5'11, but if I was you I would go with 5'11, especially since you wake up 5'11.5". Rounding down almost an entire inch is ridiculous lol, why would you do that?
@HonestSlovene Well 182 cm is 5'11.5" which would be 1 cm away from 6'0". 181cm is 5'11.25" a weak 6 footer wakes up comfortably over the mark and probably ends the day 5'11.5-75".
Edwin said on 13/Aug/17
@Sally - I'm 193.1cm barefoot at 8-9pm. I claim 193cm/6'4". I hate my height, I find it annoying. People think I'm taller than what I claim. Most people I see are shorter than me. And I never see a woman taller than me, I tower over women a lot. I'm 215-220 lbs with very low body fat, I'm big boned. I have big hands and feet. How much do you weigh, and do u think I'm a bad height. I have one Non-Identical brother, I don't have any sibling except him. We're both identical height. My father is 191-192cm and my mother is 168. Am I too tall compared to my mother
Editor Rob: hold on, a few days ago you posted "I'm 6'1" and felt taller than most people"

So you grew 3 inches, congrats...except it was your nose that grew πŸ˜†πŸ€₯
Edwin said on 13/Aug/17
@Sally - I'm 193.1cm barefoot at 8-9pm. I claim 193cm/6'4". I hate my height, I find it annoying. People think I'm taller than what I claim. Most people I see are shorter than me. And I never see a woman taller than me, I tower over women a lot. I'm 215-220 lbs with very low body fat, I'm big boned. I have big hands and feet. How much do you weigh, and do u think I'm a bad height. I have one Non-Identical brother, I don't have any sibling except him. We're both identical height. My father is 191-192cm and my mother is 168. Am I too tall compared to my mother
Edwin said on 13/Aug/17
@Sally - I'm 193.1cm barefoot at 8-9pm. I claim 193cm/6'4". I hate my height, I find it annoying. People think I'm taller than what I claim. Most people I see are shorter than me. And I never see a woman taller than me, I tower over women a lot. I'm 215-220 lbs with very low body fat, I'm big boned. I have big hands and feet. How much do you weigh
Leah said on 13/Aug/17
@Sally. Most women where I live wear open-toed sandals, heels and they also wear flip flops. They have painted toes and fingers. Many women wear skirts and dresses, and wear makeup and jewelry. Do women where u live do that. Many women are shorter than me, some are my height & taller
Triplescrew said on 13/Aug/17
@Sally

Thanks for the reply. I have to ask though: if people think you are ultra-tall, how could 6' be the average height for men where you are? At best you'd look shorter than the average male in your area, and certainly nothing out of the ordinary. A women around 6'3" in an area with 6' average men may turn heads, but not 5'11.5".

I mean, if the average for men is 6' then that probably means you and others in your area see 6'4" + men walking around all the time? In such a context I would never see 5'11.5" as ultra tall...just "not short" or "medium tall."

Another possibility is that you're closer to 6'1" and are judging 5'10" guys to be 5'11.5"...can't know unless you posted a YouTube with a stadiometer though.
Bobby said on 13/Aug/17
@18teen, You're a strong 5'10 and weak 5'11. My morning height is 5'10.5 and my night height is usually 5'9.75 but the other night I checked my eye level before bed on account of having no cans or items to measure my height and it was consistent with the eye level I would have midday, 166.5, if slight tilt, 166cm at worst but my eye level was bang on 5'5.5 barefoot, so I was 5'10 and this was well past 1AM. I wasn't lying down all day either, I'd been out for swimming and walks, even went to Corinth for a couple of hours. In the morning, my eye level is 167.5-.75. I say 167.5cm as worst case scenario if slight up tilt but it changes to 168.5-75cm with my flip flops on. Those add a centimetre, not two like I thought before. So I'm 179.1cm in the morning and surpassingly 5'10 flat at night. I've got an average eye level by the way, I checked it at 5'5.5 midday a couple months ago and measured myself bang on 5'10 immediately after. I would claim 5'11 if I were you, heck most guys claim 6ft with your stats and mine. Though mine claim 5'11, that's what I put for my Passport anyway, and considering I'm 5'11.5 in the morning with them on, not a big lie. More of a roundup actually. Half inch, who cares, right?
Leah said on 13/Aug/17
@Sally. Most women where I live wear open-toed sandals, heels and they also wear flip flops. They have painted toes and fingers. Many women wear skirts and dresses, and wear makeup and jewelry. Do women where u live do that. Many women are shorter than me, some are my height & taller
Bobby said on 13/Aug/17
@Lynxy, my height is 178cm, or 5'10. I would ideally like to be 2-3 inches taller, so like a solid 183 to 185cm. I want to be taller than I am now but not so much taller that it'll be difficult to gain muscle and fill out my physique. The best bodybuilding heights are 5'10-6'1, anything taller and it gets more difficult to gain muscle mass. I wanna go from above average height to solid tall too.
Double G said on 13/Aug/17
@HonestSlovene agreed!
Double G said on 13/Aug/17
@lynxy It depends...I think females are all fine If they are over 5' and shorter than 6'.

For males, the thing changes a bit: Short males are under 5'7, while tall guys are over 6' / 6'1. I think my ideal height for males is neither short not tall. I think 5'9.5 to 5'11.5 is tallish for males (not tall, but tallish), although my ideal height for males is between 5'10.5 and 6'1.5 (at least for me, personally - I know there are males that consider 5'11, 6' and 6'1 to be short for males when it's certainly not, and of course, anything over 6'2 / 6'3 is definitely tall and far-above average height, but its not my ideal height, which still is above-average btw).
Del Mar said on 13/Aug/17
@G 5'11
Yeah, would be cool to see pics if you would like to post some! I guess both about an inch shorter and taller could be interesting. With your proportions I guess you stack well up to guys taller than you. I should be able to post a pic of me and a 6'0.5" friend of mine as well, we're on same eye and shoulder level so the fun part is how much longer his forehead is
Leah said on 13/Aug/17
@Sally. Most women where I live wear open-toed sandals and heels. They have painted toes and fingers. Many women wear skirt and dresses, and wear makeup and jewelry. Do women where u live do that
don't know what to claim (5'11) said on 13/Aug/17
Luca said on 9/Aug/17
Rob,don't you think that the right height to claim shuold be the mathematical average between the morning and the night ones? For example,if I measure 190,75 cm out of bed and 188,3 cm at my lowest,should I claim to be 189 cm (more or less the mathematical average of the two heights) or "just" 188 cm (my lowest)?


---------

It would make sense to work out how long you are awake on average. Take readings down for your height every 30 mins or 1 hr. You should find that your height loss is exponential. on the x-axis plot time. on the y-axis plot height. I believe the exactly correct average height will be the value on the y-axis (height) at which the area under and above the curve is equal.
don't know what to claim (5'11) said on 13/Aug/17
french guy 183-185 cm said on 10/Aug/17
@don't know what to claim (5'11)

it sucks to be short

-----------------

I know. A lot of people don't agree with your comments on this website but you say some solid truth sometimes
HonestSlovene said on 13/Aug/17
@G 5'11 182 cm is closer to 6'0" than 5'11" but I'd call it 5'11.5" just like 181 cm but thats more of a weak 5'11.5", 182 cm is a strong 5'11.5" pushing 6'0". You can call a 182 cm a weak 6'0" if he does not fall under the 182 cm mark in the afternoon.
HonestSlovene said on 13/Aug/17
@Matt179 179 cm is average/tall so yes it is understandable how you feel just somewhere in the middle.
lynxy said on 13/Aug/17
What would everyone's ideal height be? Mine would be 190cm at night. Can claim 6'3 so comfortably taller than average, but not too tall.
FiveNine said on 13/Aug/17
Which is the best caterpillar boots or Nike airmax based on material quality and comfort ?. Is there anyone who has tried them ?
Arch Stanton said on 13/Aug/17
My ideal I think would be to use .25 of a cm as a round off point. So if it was say 186.2 cm it would just say 186, if it was 186.4 cm it would say 186.5, if it was 186.7 it would say 186.5 and if it was 186.8 it would be 187.
Editor Rob: I appreciate both sides of the argument about precision and the .5 version.
Arch Stanton said on 13/Aug/17
Not sure that the move to mm is a good one as we're surely guessing in feet and inches first and then the rough in cm is given. You at 172.7 cm for instance seems a bit daft when I doubt you ever hit that low. For .25 and .75 inches though I can see the beenfit of it more. Ideal I think would be to get it to round to the nearest .5 of a cm.
Slim 182 cm said on 13/Aug/17
I thought we claimed early evening or whatever you guys call it heights on this website?
Not out of or before bed, what happened to finding a middle ground?
If my theory proves wrong, matt179 is actually 5'10.25
Christian-6'5 3/8 said on 13/Aug/17
@Sally
Im quoting from your comment "The reason everyone is not talking about how tall Wisconsinites are is because a measly 1-1.5" above average height is not exactly headline news." You say that the average over there is 5'11-6'0" (which is essentially 5'11.5" for simplicity's sake) and you say they're 1-1.5" above the average. So that means you think that the average is 5'10-5'10.5". But that's nowhere near accurate because the average is acutally 5'9.25", in fact a bit below because of early measurements and a few shoe measurements so 5'8.5"-5'9". So your perception of other people's height may very well be inflated, because you think that the US average is 5'10-5'10.5" But I think that the average for central Wisconsin is really about 5'10", since they're 1-1.5" above the US average like you think.
Christian-6'5 3/8" said on 13/Aug/17
@insomniak

Maybe you didn't fully understand when I stated that the measured average white guy AGED 20-39 is 5'10" (notice that this is just for ages 20-39). And I aslo said that many patients visit the doctors early in the day, so they may have been measured early before they hit their low. And a few of them are even measured with shoes on, both of which raises the average slightly, so the true average might be around 5'9.5" BTW the measured average for all races is 5'9.25", but because of the early measurements/shoes, it might be 5'8.75" give or take, making my 5'8.5"-5'9" estimate valid. So you're wrong, they are enough minorities to impact the average, about 0.75"
Double G said on 13/Aug/17
If I'm 1,79-1,80 barefoot, could I claim 1,81-82 as my current height footwear?
Slim 182 cm said on 13/Aug/17
I strongly disagree canson, I believe Matt is the victim and everyone kinda attacked the guy. I did aswell, but I pegged him 5'10.25,

I think he mistook 5'11 for 5'10.75 (rob rounded both to180 cm)and he said himself he doesn't drop below 5'10 when his doing a gruelling workout.

Matt isn't a mm above 5'11 out of bed at the absolute max ATM. Imo, but it was a harsh attack on the guy, cmon guys, if anything a guy that measured that height would inflate it to 5'11 on this forum.

If anything this page is just spammed with trolls and **** talking. It's why I'd avoid it as much as possible.
5'11.5indianguy said on 12/Aug/17
Hi Rob,I measure almost 5'11 at night and with air max and a 1.5 inch lift I measure around 6'2.If I don't wear the lifts I'm around 6'0.5.I will be travelling to Canada in a short while.Will I be taller or at par with the men there?
What abt the women will I be taller than them too?
Sally said on 12/Aug/17
@ Leah

I rarely wear heels. Occasionally I will low-heeled pumps. I live in a rather casual area of the US. Most women don't wear heels. We stick to sandals, sneakers, or boots depending upon the season. I don't wear nail polish. However, I do wear jewelry and skirts. Skirts are great because different lengths are acceptable unlike pants wear you need a certain length. By the way, I originally submitted this yesterday, but it didn't post for some reason.
Mahfuj said on 12/Aug/17
@Sally - u say u never liked ur ultra-tall height. Why did u dislike ur height and how is 5'11.5 ultra-tall. There are many men close to ur height or taller. I have seen 6'3"+ men. One of my maths teachers in high school (Mr. Turner) was 6'4" and towered over people, he looked big. People think even 6'4" is not too tall, so 5'11.5" is def not too tall. I'm from England
Sally said on 12/Aug/17
@ Edwin

Hello, I agree with you that I am approximately your female height equivalent. According to this site, the average male is approximately 5 inches taller than the average female. Do you have tall siblings? My sisters are somewhat shorter than me at roughly 5'8", and my brother is approximately 5'11". I believe my brother would have grown taller had he not developed diabetes as a 15-year-old due to high-dose antibiotics that were given to him after a farming accident. This was a hypothesis given to us by his doctors many years ago. By the way I originally wrote this yesterday, but it didn't post for some reason.
Sally said on 12/Aug/17
@ Don't know what to claim (5'11)

I apologize for my blunt response to your inquiry on what your chances are of growing to certain morning/night-time heights. I should have been more sympathetic. I saw your response to the Slav that you want to be 6'6". I agree with the Slav that your height is already great. At 5'11" you can go into any store and buy clothing off the rack, fit comfortably into vehicles, and not garner unwanted attention. BTW I initially wrote this comment yesterday but it didn't post for some reason.
Mahfuj said on 12/Aug/17
I went to London today for the first time with my father, I've only been in London airport when I was a child a few times. We went on train. I'm staying there for 4 days. It was a hard journey, I had to carry heavy bags and we walked a lot. While I was walking I saw some beautiful attractive girls. They were wearing sexy clothes, heels etc. I'm 6'1" and felt taller than most people. Almost all the girls I saw were shorter than me, some girls I thought looked closer to my height. How is it in Holland, are 6'4" women common there
Sally said on 12/Aug/17
@ Triplescrew

I neglected to insert a key word into my last sentence in my previous comment to you. I should have written "However, this is completely irrelevant as I stated approximately 30 times that I am specifically talking about the average WHITE male height in central Wisconsin." I am specifically talking about men between the ages of 20-50, which I have also previously stated numerous times.
Ben said on 12/Aug/17
@Canson In public I claim 5'10" which is below my low, it's mostly only on thsi site that I claim 5'10.5" which is around my average height througout the day. I wake up at a fraction over 5'11" and go to bed at 5'10.25" or 5'10 1/8. I gained a bit of height this summer. I think I'll end up at 6'0", my father is 6'0" and he grew from 5'5" to 6'0" after 15 or atleast that's why he told me. Me on the other hand was 5'9" at 15.6 years old.
Sally said on 12/Aug/17
@ Iamurfather

Thanks for your response. If you review my post of 4/Aug/17 addressing @ Christian & @ insomniak, you will see that I did specifically say "a non-minority white population of men between the ages of 20-50." I have specified this age range in many but not all of my previous posts. I chose this age group because these men have attained their full adult height but have not yet lost appreciable height. FYI some people on this site believe younger men (born after 1995) are actually shorter than previous generations due to a more sedentary lifestyle and possibly higher junk food consumption. I don't know if their is a factual basis to this or not.
Canson said on 12/Aug/17
@Harry: a lot will depend on your genetics as well as the rate in which you have grown already etc. I can say that at 13 I was 6'0 already and I believe about 6'2" when I hit high school. Then at 15 was close to 6'4" then and was a solid 6'4 I believe at 16. May have grown maybe a small fraction around 17-18 I think to where I am. I'm 36 myself so not sure if I have hit the decline yet as I'm still 193.9 at night. It's tough to tell because I didn't know it varied like it does until about 2-3 years ago when I first started on this site.
18Teen said on 12/Aug/17
@EditorRob

I'm an 18 year old (and hopefully growing teen). I wake up at 5'11.5 and go to bed at 5'10.75. I claim 5'10 because I've been told it's best to go off of extreme low. How much below an inch can you be at your extreme low before you can claim it?

For example, if someone is 6'1.75 at their lowest low. And 6'2.5 at dawn, can they claim 6'2? I think 7/8s is fair game. 5'9 7/8 for ex, should definitely be 5'10 imo.
Editor Rob: I think if you fall a 1/4 inch under 6ft 2 at worst, it is quite reasonable to say 6ft 2 or about it...but if you fell to 6ft 1-1.25 and gave 6ft 2, that's more a shoe height or morning height.

I wouldn't round down to 5ft 10, I'd say 'almost 5ft 11'.
Bobby said on 12/Aug/17
@Harry, I wouldn't expect something that high but you might be fortunate to reach 185cm which is a solid height for a man.
Del Mar said on 12/Aug/17
Guys, and Rob, given that the guy to the left is 5'9", how tall would the guy to the right be? Click Here. Mind the hair style of the guy to the left, could trick you make him look taller. I'd guess the right at 6'1-1.25" but not sure
Slim 182 cm said on 12/Aug/17
You know you're on the general page when you read "dude six foot isn't tall anymore" just repeated by 7 guys in a row, I imagine the big man himself rofls when reading these comments...
Sally said on 12/Aug/17
@ Triplescrew

Forgive me if I sound defensive, but as a 47-year-old woman who has been measured dozens of times since reaching my adult height; I can assure you that I am 5'11.5" not 5'10" as you suggest. I wish you were right. I have never liked my ultra-tall height. upon seeing me, most people believe I am a minimum of 6'0" tall. I have proportionally long limbs and a shorter torso, which may give me the illusion of being even taller than I am. Everybody from coworkers to complete strangers have expressed disbelief when I tell them my height is 5'11.5". I believe this is partly due to them falsely believing they are taller than they are. Quoting Canson, they often "assess me a height in correlation to their own lie." In order to prove my height after one of these incidents, I removed my shoes in the Shawano County courthouse and allowed one of the judges to measure me. As I stated, I was exactly 5'11.5". If you have been on this website for any length of time, you would realize I am a very sincere person. As a former court reporter and now a registered nurse, I am trusted to be honest and precise.
You state you have friends from Wisconsin who are 5'6"-5'8". I have a close male friend who is 5'3". That certainly doesn't mean the average male height in CENTRAL WISCONSIN is in the 5'5"-5'6" range. I want to again state I am talking about central Wisconsin, not Wisconsin as a whole for the reasons given in my post to Christian.
I agree with you that not all Latinos/Hispanics and Asians are short. However, in my area of central Wisconsin, the vast majority of them are. Most of them are first- and second-generation migrant workers, which tend to be shorter in stature than white men. However, this is completely irrelevant as I stated approximately 30 times that I am specifically talking about the average male height in central Wisconsin!
Matthew Robinson said on 12/Aug/17
Harry said on 10/Aug/17
Hello Rob Im 15.5 years old my height is 1.77 cm will Δ± grow up 1.90 cm ?

---

Probably not. It's impossible to predict, because people grow at such different rates. Some guys who are 177 cm at 15.5 years old will grow to 190 cm (but not too many), and some guys who are 177 cm at 15.5 are already done growing. Probably the most likely common sort of range I'd imagine a guy your age and height might end up in is around 180 to 181 cm - but it's impossible to predict.
Sally said on 12/Aug/17
@ Leah

Hi Leah, I wear low-heeled pumps on special occasions. I do not wear heels on a regular basis because I feel tall enough without them. I live in an area of the US that is quite casual. Depending on the season, most women wear sandals, sneakers, or boots. I do not wear nail polish. As a busy mom, I don't take the time to do my nails. I do wear jewelry and skirts on occasion. Skirts are great because different lengths are acceptable; unlike pants that need to be a certain length.
Sally said on 12/Aug/17
@ Edwin

Hello, Edwin. I agree we are nearly male/female equivalents. According to this website,females are on average 5 inches shorter than men. Do you have tall siblings? I am somewhat taller than my sisters who are close to 5'8". My brother is approximately 5'11".
Sally said on 11/Aug/17
@ Don't know what to claim (5'11)

I apologize for my blunt response to your inquiry on what your chances are of growing to certain morning/night-time heights. I should have been more sympathetic. I see your response to the Slav that you want to be 6'6". I agree with the Slav that your height is already great. At 5'11" you can go into any store and buy clothing off the rack, fit comfortably into vehicles, and not garner unwanted attention.
Blake said on 11/Aug/17
Rob, what do you think about this correlation people who get the shorter genes in taller than average families having long heads like Paul McGann and Kiefer Sutherland? I guess on the flip side look at BooBoo Stewart his head isn't long and his father is 6 ft 3
Editor Rob: I don't know about correlation as you'd have to study it. Genetics can throw up lots of combinations and randomness.
Sally said on 11/Aug/17
@ Christian

Christian, I appreciate your apology. I am frustrated because I feel like I have written numerous relatively long, well thought-out comments stating that I was specifically referring to the average height of white males living in central Wisconsin. You continue to doubt my claim that the average height for the aforementioned group is 5'11"-6.0". I wonder if you read my previous post where I did say the average is probably closer to 5'11" than 6'.0", but it is somewhere between these two figures. I have also stated more than once that the vast majority of individuals in this area are of German, Dutch, and Norwegian descent. Notice how I included Dutch individuals. Thus we have Dutch DNA. I am well aware that the Netherlands is the tallest nation on Earth. I also explained people in this area of the US consume an abundance of dairy and get regular exercise, which according to this site is a factor effecting growth. The reason everyone is not talking about how tall Wisconsinites are is because a measly 1-1.5" above average height is not exactly headline news. I wonder if you read my post to you where I informed you I was not "cherry picking" your comments. I explained what threw me off was your use of the word "especially". I feel like we have discussed this topic ad nauseam.
Hovland said on 11/Aug/17
I'm not sure if I should consider myself a 5'11. I measure rougly around 180.5 cm in the morning and my evening height is about a cm lower.
@6'1.5 said on 11/Aug/17
Now I talk with a guy who claims that his height is 175 cm (5'9), but even his head with hair is below my eye level (174 cm / 5'8.5 ").
I'm inclined to think that his height is 170.5-171.5 cm.
Do you know why 5'7 "and 5'8" guys need 5'9 "?
What would most people think of them as guys average height, but that's not true.
They are just pathetic and look like losers.
blazer said on 11/Aug/17
@Harry. Since your almost 16 I'd say you are going to be 184 morning and 181 at night for your final height. Give or take 1 cm. I also see money in your future and long life ahead.
Christian-6'5 3/8" said on 11/Aug/17
@Sammy Derrick

You must realize that the majority of male celebs on this site are either athletes or actors, so they tend to be are taller than the average guy. About 5'11" for the average guy is unrealistic.
G 5'11 said on 11/Aug/17
@Brendan179cm 182cm is 5'11.5 you're 5'11 though because you fall closer to 11 then 6 foot
G 5'11 said on 11/Aug/17
@Slim 182cm exactly, so many trolls are on this forum now a days.
G 5'11 said on 11/Aug/17
@Del mar, I feel like my posture is ****, I've been working on it more lately but I feel I can improve so i don't appear shorter then I am. And I'm down to put up pictures with friends, just don't have any recent ones will be sure to take some. And would you like me to get them with friends an inch shorter or taller or both? At the worst I'll try to find someone similar to me so that we are within an inch
G 5'11 said on 11/Aug/17
@Harry what are the height of your parents? If you're 15 and nearly 5'10. At worst you'll end up 5'11(180cm) but I say you have a chance of reaching 6 feet ( 183cm) 6'3 (190cm) is a bit unlikely but not impossible to reach as I know a friend who grew from 5'7-5'11 and then again to 6'3. Best of luck to you though.
the Slav said on 11/Aug/17
@Harry
Be happy if you even reach 183 cm.
Ben said on 11/Aug/17
Harry,
More like 185 but it depends on how tall and how much your parents grew
Del Mar said on 11/Aug/17
Harry, most guys are in their late zone of growing at 15.5, so I'm afraid I would say 1.90 is very unlikely for you (although not entirely impossible). I'd say you have a good chance of hitting 1.80, or possibly slightly over.
Bobby, said on 11/Aug/17
@Luca, I claim mathematical averages as well, I'm 179cm in the morning and close to 177cm at my low, but the average of that is 178cm, but here in Greece, I don't sleep that well, and keep waking up throughout the night so my morning height has suffered by a quarter inch. I'll wake up at 5'10.25 rather than 5'10.5 in Canada.
Matt179 said on 11/Aug/17
I measure myself like rob with a Stadiometer. In inches and cm, At 4PM, I measured at 179cm exactly.

This height is odd, Because alot of guys i encounter are either short Like 5foot9 and under.

or They are taller,like 6 foot and more. Alot of guys i met that are 5foot9 and under are overweight so they look stocky.

Alot of guys 6foot more are Lanky.

I dont really like this height, its Like were jam in the middle of 2 type of guys, i guess its average height.

Also i always wear sneakers shoes with a big Heel(Every inch counts!) I like to wear nike sneakers they give the most height.In the past i wear cowboy boots but its obvious too people know you wear these to make you taller.They look ridiculous also.I would never wear cuban heel boots Those look like women shoes. So these days i wear All black sneakers(They are more steahlty and people wont look at your shoes like white shoes). Sometime when i want to be really taller i Put a 1 inch foam shoe lift inside the shoe, it give 2.35 of total height.Boost me up too 6foot0.85. At this height im really taller than 5foot9 guys When talking to them im looking down.Also 6foot2 guys(Which is rare) I dont feel short next to them.
Luca said on 11/Aug/17
Edwin,which height do you claim? 193 cm or 194 cm?
Canson said on 10/Aug/17
@slim182: that makes zero sense about Matt179 being a 5'10.5 guy and then calling everyone else trolls who say he isn't. Technically he is not. you lose height from when you wake. And he wakes to 5'10.75. By celebheights standards and Rob's he is 5'10 not 5'10.5 yet he claims 5'11. This throws everyone else's claims off as well. I could see if he were maybe 5'10.25 at his low claiming 5'10.5 or if he were maybe 5'10.5ish or near it claiming 5'11 as a rounded up number but he is neither. He's 5'10.75 out of bed and 5'10 at night. If he wakes up at 5'10.75 (keep in mind you lose a cm or at absolute least 1/4" in an hour), he'd be lucky to be 5'10.5 an hour after he wakes. He may claim it just because he chooses to like anyone else does but making him 5'10.5 means that everyone else here (people who claim their true height at their lowest or near) would essentially then be half inch taller than they claim here and we would be inflating everyone. But that's his choice and it doesn't mean it is right or wrong and that everyone else is a troll saying he isn't because technically it's arguable moreso that he isn't 5'10.5. I mean you can get by and say they're 5'10 and change if he wanted or strong 5'10 but what is the point in doing that? 5'10 is 5'10. Him saying 5'10.5 looks like more of a thing to make it roundable to 5'11 which is not his height as he doesn't even wake up at that height. And face it if he weren't aware it varied as is the case with everyone else here we would've never even known our out of bed heights. I don't think any of us (who are not attending a sports combine where we are sleeping at the complex itself) will make it to a doctor's office without losing at least 1/4" of height honestly. At least guys like G5'11 Ben and Bobby have better claims even if they aren't their lowest because they are within reason not claiming their height less than an hour out of bed
insomniak said on 10/Aug/17
@Christian, are you saying you feel the American average is 5'8.5 or California cause there's no way the average for the u.s is 5'8.5 cause that's way too low, are you aware that the amount of minorities isn't enough to impact the average height significantly. The average American Caucasian male is 5'10. If we went by I.d height the average would be 6'.I've seen plenty shorter mem around 5'9-5'10 put 6' on their license, my listed height on my license is too low because I grew significantly from 16-18.
Harry said on 10/Aug/17
Hello Rob Im 15.5 years old my height is 1.77 cm will Δ± grow up 1.90 cm ?
Kylett said on 10/Aug/17
Looks like edwin want something with sally hahahahaa
iamurfather said on 10/Aug/17
@Christian-6'5 3/8 Did you know the average height of White American (20-39) does not mean every city has the same height of White Americans in U.S.? Did you know there is a huge difference between different White groups?
french guy 183-185 cm said on 10/Aug/17
@don't know what to claim (5'11)

it sucks to be short
iamurfather said on 10/Aug/17
Sally said on 28/Jul/17
@ Kaneff 6'0.25": I completely agree with your 25/Jul/17 post. I live in the Midwest...central Wisconsin to be more precise. There are certainly exceptions; but the more white a community is, the taller the average height. I believe African Americans have similar heights to whites; but most areas with higher black populations also have other minorities such as Hispanics, which greatly decrease the average height. My small community seems to be an exception. The average man here is probably 5'9"-5'10", but if I find myself in just about any other location in central Wisconsin, the average seems to jump to 5'11"-6'0". The majority of people here have German, Dutch, or Norwegian ancestory.


@Sally, if you mention youths (18 years old) in central Wisconsin cities have reached average height as 5'11-6'. I think you made a good point. The average of whole adult there may not be 5'11. 5'9 sounds more correction. But I believe new generations (born after 1995) have grown to 5'11-6' averagely.
Edwin said on 10/Aug/17
@Sally - ur probably my female equivalent. I would love to be with a woman ur height. It feels nice when a woman is the same height or close in height to a man.
Edwin said on 10/Aug/17
@Sally - At 8pm, I'm 193.1cm barefoot, and weigh 210-215 lbs, with very low body fat. I'm big boned, and have big hands and feet.
Edwin said on 10/Aug/17
@Sally - At 8pm, I'm 193.1cm barefoot, and weigh 210-215 lbs, with very low body fat. I'm big boned, and have big hands and feet.
Edwin said on 10/Aug/17
@Sally - At 8pm, I'm 193.1cm barefoot, and weigh 210-215 lbs, with very low body fat. I'm big boned, and have big hands and feet.
Slim 182 cm said on 10/Aug/17
@Matt179, I actually believe you're 5'10.5, unlike the other trolls and not any less, but if you don't mind me asking, did you measure yourself with metres/cms or feet/inches?
Leah said on 10/Aug/17
@Sally. I'm a woman. I'm 176.5cm barefoot at night. I'm taller in the morning. 176.5cm is exactly 5'9 1/2. I feel taller than most women. Many men are same height or taller than me. I like high heels, but rarely wear them, I wear flats. Some men told they like my height, it's attractive. I have longs too. Sally, do you paint your finger nails and toes, I do.
Double G said on 10/Aug/17
I've been measured by my doctor. I'm 5'10-5'10.5 barefoot at morning, although people see me as a 5'11.5 guy with shoes on, and they don't believe my claim of being 5'10 barefoot. However, Rob, do you see credible being 5'10 barefoot and then 5'11.5 or even look-like-6ft when on shoes? People see me closer to 6 ft than to 5'11 paradoxically, and that confuses me quite a bit...
Anthony said on 10/Aug/17
Hi rob my mum is 161cm and the top of her head reaches about 1cm above my top lip. I used a ruler. What would you estimate my height to be? Dont have a tape measure atm thats why im asking.Thanks
Editor Rob: a chance of being near to 178cm.
Ben said on 10/Aug/17
Rob, I tried measuring myself using different objects. I had been up for only 2 hours and I had been up on my feet for the last 45 minutes and I got:

Bug spray can: 5'10 1/8th (Not as accurate as I had thought)
Food box: 5'10.75" (Probably the most accurate result)
Box: 5'10.75" (Also pretty accurate)
An object I don't know the name of: 5'11 1/10 (Not too accurate either)
Editor Rob: didn't I do a video like that once Click Here.

I think it needs to be very wonky/curved item to get over half an inch difference from a normal can/box type measurement.
HonestSlovene said on 10/Aug/17
@Bobby Well I don't doubt older guys over 65 measuring 5'7"-5'8" range at best. 5'10" isn't that far fetched for young guys 18-35, most of the figures on wikipedia's height page are measured, only a few are self reported.

Evidence for Greece:

Greece 178.06 cm (5 ft 10 in) N/A N/A Conscripts, 18–26 (N= m:3,982, SD= m:7.05 cm (3 in)) 13.7% Measured 2006–2007
Greece 177 cm (5 ft 9 1⁄2 in) 165 cm (5 ft 5 in) 1.07 18–49 56.3% Measured 2003 [18]
Del Mar said on 10/Aug/17
Hey guys, since we are generally quite height oriented here, do you find yourself to have a generally better posture than your mates of fellow height? And how do you stack up to friends at an inch taller? Would be cool if would want to put up a pic with a friend on level grund for comparison, if you respond to this comment
179cm said on 10/Aug/17
@Christian-6'5 3/8"

The US average is probably 5'9" ish

@Celebheights 6'1.5

All these claims like "the average is 6'1"-2" in Minnesota" are from people who have skewed perceptions. Those people are probably suffering from low self-esteem and are looking for evidence that they are short at 5'10"-6'0", so therefore they ignore all the shorter people.
Canson said on 9/Aug/17
@Christian: if going off licenses tho it could be a little higher. I've seen some "good" ones like a 5'10 1/2 (tops) friend claim 6'1" on his when I saw it and I looked at him and said he wasn't and he didn't even challenge because he had already told us many times he's 5'11 1/2. Only problem was the 5'11 1/2 is in shoes and he's 5'10.5 really as he admitted. Also have someone else i know who claimed 6'4 for the longest and now says 6'3 (he's a few years older than me at 40 years old now). He isn't as tall as my 6'3@ friend is he's more 6'2.5 at best and had 6'5 on his FL license I believe maybe 6'4 when he moved to VA from Florida
Brendan 179cm said on 9/Aug/17
@bobby well I guess I'm still not done growing
Ive measured myself for a few days straight and I actually grew from 179.5/6 at night to a solid 181.5/6
I'm 183.3 in the morning
Seems I have grown to my uncles height after all πŸ˜‚πŸ˜‚ genetics are cool
Still can't change my name from 179cm through
I certainly feel quite tall now walking around at 182 during the day
I guess I'm 5,11.5 or 3/4?
don't know what to claim (5'11) said on 9/Aug/17
the Slav said on 7/Aug/17
Don't know what to claim (5'11) said on 6/Aug/17
if i am 20 and wake up 182.3cm and finish the day at 180.5, what are my chances of growing to the following waking up/sleeping heights

194/192

191/189

188/186

185/183


even the chance for you to reach 185/183 is slim to none, but why does it even matter? Your height is great already
--------------

Because I want to be 6'6









Sally said on 7/Aug/17
@ Don't know what to claim (5'11)

In regard to my post to Christian where I commented "There is no way the average is 5'9.5" as you suggest, because that would mean there are as many 5'7.5" men as 5'11.5" men and that is simply not the case", you corrected me saying "That's not how averages work." I am certainly no mathematician. I was merely simplifying my comments regarding averages for the purposes of this discussion.

Sorry, but at the age of 20 and a current height of 182.3cm wake-up height and 180.5cm night-time height there is not a snowballs chance in Hell that you will grow to 185/183, let alone the taller heights you mention, unless you have a pituitary gland disorder. According to an endocrinologist I saw with my son approximately three years ago, most males reach their adult height before or during their 17th year.


-----------
Ok. I haven't grown since I was 15.





Mathew Robinson said on 7/Aug/17
@Don't know what to claim (5'11) - 0%, 0%, 0%, 0.3% respectively. Sorry, just think the odds of you hitting a solid 6 foot at night if you're 5'11" at night and aged 20 is probably something like 1 in 300. And getting well over 6 foot seems like an impossibility.

----------------

I am disappointed.



G 5'11 said on 8/Aug/17
@(Don't know what to claim 5'11) unfortunately you are probably done growing since you are 20 years old, you are a much stronger 5'11 then me though, almost 6 feet in the morning you should be happy, decent height.

-------------

Thanks for the replies.
Sammy Derrick said on 9/Aug/17
Here's my opinion on average height, I think that the average height of men is a little understated.Before you guys maul me with comments,just hear me out.The average height is around 5'11(although I could be wrong).Here's why...The top male names from 1917-2016...are as follows...Plus the average height of the male celebrities with the said first name.The celebrities aren't just white American males but men from all racial groups born in different times from the 1920's to the 1990's.
1.James-5'11.44 (181.5cm)
2.John-5'11.41 (181.4cm)
3.Robert-5'11.28(181.1cm)
4.Michael-5'10.85(179.9cm)
5.William-5'11.26(181cm)
6.David-5'10.9(180.1cm)
7.Richard-5'11.56(181.8cm)
8.Joseph-5'9.88(177.5cm)
9.Thomas-5'11.36(181.2cm)
10.Charles-5'11.26(181cm)
11.Christopher-5'11.64(182cm)
12.Daniel-5'11.33(181.2cm)
13.Matthew-5'11.84(182.5cm)
14.Anthony-5'11.57(181.8cm)
15.Donald-5'10.72(179.6cm)
16.Mark-5'10.91(180.1cm)
17.Paul-5'11.02(180.4cm)
18.Steven-5'10.8(179.8cm)
19.Andrew-5'10.24(178.4cm)
20.Kenneth-5'10.27(178.5cm)
AVERAGE=5'11.08(180.54cm)
As a guy whose 5'8(173cm) on a good day,it's hard to feel anywhere close to average height...Maybe it's footwear,body proportions I don't know...
James Edward Crowley Maximus Meridi said on 9/Aug/17
Rob do you miss your 20s more than your 30s,I bet your glad your not in your 30s anymore,I consider the 30s to be a decade that has ups and downs,Once your out of your 30s and into your 40s your much happier and feel better about yourself the 30s is a decade you don't miss,There is nothing special about being in your 30's most people these days miss their 20s and their 40s more than they miss their 30s to them the 20s and the 40s are the best decades for people the 50s and the 60s are even better than the 40's the 30s is the decade nobody misses when you leave them.
Editor Rob: I'm normally someone who has the interest in a topic and it reaches a peak and fades.

my 30's was spent mainly working on this site.

Also from 30 to 40 I've been with Jenny too...

these are 2 big constants through 30's, I did enjoy the last 10 years...being able to work from home is challenging in many respects, but it allows me freedom which I am grateful for.
Canson said on 9/Aug/17
@Christian: I think you nailed it very well! 5'8.5-5'9 is reasonable and I also agree with the other stuff you said as well. Maybe just 5'8.5
Christian-6'5 3/8" said on 9/Aug/17
@Sally

I thought you meant that the average white male in US is 5'11-6'0". Apparently you didn't. Sorry, I misunderstood. But I still doubt that the average in central Wisconsin is high as 5'11-6'0". One, because even the average in the Netherlands, which is the tallest country on earth, is somewhere between 5'11"-6'0", and Netherlands is a relatively homogenous country too. Second, if central Wisconsin was so tall, why is it that I don't see or hear anyone else saying that Wisconsinians are taller than the rest of Americans, yet pretty much everyone knows that the Dutch are taller than the rest of Europeans?
5'8.75 said on 9/Aug/17
If you don't trust height statistics. So there is an easy way to do it by your self. just go walking in some public area such as markets,gardens..etc during weekend and calculate taller and shorter people around you (same gender) excluding child's and minorities. You can count until getting 99 person. then you will discover your height percentile.
c-mo said on 9/Aug/17
Slim 182 cm said on 7/Aug/17
C-mo, you're really underestimating not only the average, but your own height, your 5'9.5 when slept/hydrated for sure. A 184 cm man is taller than 70-75% of the Dutch population, dude. The "6' isn't tall anymore arguement was really silly

-------------------------------------------------------

bro I am just telling you what I see and experience . I am a tiny bit over 178cm when I get out of bed after a 9h+ sleep and immediately measure myself . I fall down to 177.4-5cm after 1 hour . however I fall quickly to 176.3cm or so after 4-5 hours and even 176cm when I am more active . at the end of the day I am about 175.9cm and on my extreme low I am around 175.5cm

so I am basically an extremely strong 5'9 guy . I am a 5'9.25 evening man

and I measured my friend I am talking about at 183.5cm on the stadiometer

I also measured another friend on the stadiometer at 181cm

both are not much taller than me especially the 181cm friend ...we are even almost eye to eye . they are taller yes but the difference is NOT as much as that you can say that they are tall ..this even applies to the 183.5cm friend as I already explained

it is not something that I just make up in my head . no . I stood often face to face with them and also compared them on the mirror with me .

I am on the lower end of average height . how is my friend who is 183-184cm "tall" even though the difference between us is visible but not striking ? if you took a solid 178cm nighttime guy which is legit/strong average the difference to my 183-184cm friend wouldnt even be that noticable anymore trust me . so how can he be tall then ? he is above average ...because he is a few centimeters taller than an average height male but to say that he is "tall" is a stretch
Celebheights 6'1.5 said on 9/Aug/17
Average height for every professional sport:

Basketball-6'6"-6'7"
Football-Around 6'2", give or take a fraction.
Baseball-In between 6'1" and 6'2", with it possibly leaning more towards 6'2" (despite the fact that a lot of MLB players do inflate their heights).
Hockey: 6'1"-6'1 1/2"
Soccer/European football-5'10 1/2"-5'11"
Wrestling-6'1"-6'2"
UFC-5'10"
Tennis-6'1"
Golf-6'0"
Lacrosse-6'1"

For actors, the average height is somewhere between 5'9" and 5'10" from what I've noticed. Male models probably average 6'1"-6'2", so 6'1"-6'2" is the ideal range for a male based off of these numbers.
Luca said on 9/Aug/17
Rob,don't you think that the right height to claim shuold be the mathematical average between the morning and the night ones? For example,if I measure 190,75 cm out of bed and 188,3 cm at my lowest,should I claim to be 189 cm (more or less the mathematical average of the two heights) or "just" 188 cm (my lowest)?
Editor Rob: there's a mathematical but also a time-related average.
insomniak said on 8/Aug/17
@Christian, when there's a nine inch difference it leaves huge room for error. And all I'm saying just cause you visit a place doesn't mean you know the exact average as the average can vary day to day, some days you'll encounter taller people and other days you'll encounter shorter people which is why I'm saying that's possibly why Sally felt the average was 5'11-6'0 when visiting.
Matt179 said on 8/Aug/17
@Slim 182 cm

Also 3cm is 1.18 Inches. Airforce 1 give 1.25. And airmax 90 give more than airforce 1. They are really 3.5cm or 1.35 inches of height.
Matt179 said on 8/Aug/17
@Slim 182 cm

I got a pair of Nike airmax 90, They give 1.35 Inches exactly. I measure them like rob did with his sneakers page.

They boost 1.35 inches of height over my barefoot height.I dont know how many cm is that, But Its alot for sneakers.
Tonyx said on 8/Aug/17
Meaning that the average height of white men in 2017 in USA aged 26-45 is 178.3cm which is 5ft10and1/5in. Not young men. Not high-school or college. Just men, not old but not young.
When it comes to the perfect height, i think it constantly changes. As a man when you turn 50, you want to be 1 inch taller then the average height of young males, meaning you have to be tall for your generation. I'd rather be 6ft1in with a chin, jaw, mandible, brow ridge like Brian Stann or Cain Velasquez then be a full 6ft4in like Jon Jones. I also think that being able to blend in with a crowd is a big asset. BTW, where are all the 60 year old healthy 6ft4in non athlete guys? How are their back doing?
Being tall and being alpha are to different things.
Tonyx said on 8/Aug/17
On Wikipedia it says
United States – Non-Hispanic whites aged 20–39
Median= males:178.3cm,females:164.8 cm
Measured 2011–2014.
2017 in full swing.
I think that the USA average human height is not a single number but a span. Too diverse.
Triplescrew said on 8/Aug/17
@Sally

I would more likely believe that you are actually 5'10" range, or that you have a low eye level, than that the average white Wisconsin man is 6'0". I have a few white friends from Wisconsin and they are 5'6" - 5'8". So I suppose if we go by anecdote or personal experience then the average is lower?

Seems people in general love to throw around the "minorities bring the average down mantra" to boost the average height of whites. I get that the average for white men is taller than for others but some of ya'll take that way out of proportion. For instance, one of my uncles is German, around 5'11.5" - 6'0" barefoot, and is comfortably taller than most white men of German descent who are of the younger generation in Pennsylvania.

Secondly, asians and latinos really aren't that short. Most that I see on college campuses aren't too far off from whites. Men from china especially seem to be near a 5'10" average.
Tonyx said on 8/Aug/17
Rob, guys, what is the average difference between a mans height on his left foot and on his right foot. Naturally, most people are taller on their left foot but by how much? Does the difference increase with age and weight gain? The difference with my height is a legit half an inch(1.27cm).
Editor Rob: some people might have a leg slightly longer, but it could be very similar too.
G 5'11 said on 8/Aug/17
@The Slav, yeah unfortunately there's no miracle growth formula to make you grow after puberty, limb lengthing is the only way which is costly and painful. I feel him though, I too myself would love to be taller, like at least a stronger 5'11 or even weak 6 foot. Of course I could have been shorter, and I'm not complaining by any means.In today's society, tall stature is associated with respect, attraction from females and many more. Sure there's things outside of height which matter, but height is definetly one of the first things women notice, since it's just right in front of them.( now some might underestimate or overestimate that's a different story)Now to add to that, 5 ft 11 for a male is a very decent height. He's more a legit 5'11 then I am. And I'm sure he could get away with claiming 6 foot. Ask any guy though which they would rather be 6'3 or 5'3, I'm sure 99.9% of guys would pick 6'3. The only thing tricky about being tall is filling out your frame so you don't look like a stick. But if I where to end up say 6'1 or 6'2, I would just spend a lot of time training and dieting hard to look really shredded for my height. Sure 5'11 is decent for bodybuilding and even 6 feet but you just don't get as much intimidation and alpha status as say a ripped 6'2 guy. That's just my opinion though, I'm sure many will agree/disagree.
I sit back sometimes and wonder if I may have stunted my growth a bit, due to poor diet and sleep schedule during early years of high school. I think if everything was better, I could have ended up 1-2 inches taller. *sigh*
Hamad said on 8/Aug/17
Rob, what do you think is the short range for men in a country where the average height is 175-176?
Editor Rob: 8-9cm under that average and nearly everybody will view you as short, 8-9cm over and see you as tall.

4-5cm under it? A big proportion will think of you as short.
G 5'11 said on 8/Aug/17
@(Don't know what to claim 5'11) unfortunately you are probably done growing since you are 20 years old, you are a much stronger 5'11 then me though, almost 6 feet in the morning you should be happy, decent height.
Bobby, said on 8/Aug/17
@HonestSlovene, yesterday I was at the museum and at 5'10, I felt pretty average because there were a lot of guys my height or a bit taller. I would say the older generations are 5'7-5'8 range. Though in most other cases, I've felt tallish and above average. 178cm for people in their 20s seems self reported but I can believe it from seeing other young people but seem of them are under that height considerably.
Christian-6'5 3/8" said on 8/Aug/17
@Canson

What are your thoughts on the average US height? I'm just wondering. It might be 5'8.5"-5'9" including all races.
Mathew Robinson said on 7/Aug/17
@Don't know what to claim (5'11) - 0%, 0%, 0%, 0.3% respectively. Sorry, just think the odds of you hitting a solid 6 foot at night if you're 5'11" at night and aged 20 is probably something like 1 in 300. And getting well over 6 foot seems like an impossibility.
Canson said on 7/Aug/17
@Sally: you make some good points too! the number may be a bit off also because doctors records aren't always necessarily the most accurate source and sometimes they don't bother to tell you to remove shoes as I've seen not just my wife but with me when a nurse told me i don't have to remove. She told me she estimates which is pretty damn stupid in my opinion when it takes seconds to remove shoes from your feet. I Didnt oblige and removed them. However also said if the DMV is a primary source it's not the most accurate. I've seen guys shorter than me by an inch say they're 6'5" on their license and even a guy who's a son to a guy I work with was said to be 6'3" by his dad who is 5'9-5'10 and his dad referred to him as that for years. I met and stood next to him and he is really maybe strong 6'1" tops. His dad said I had 3" on him clear. A lot of people list in shoes which he did as a former athlete himself. His dad didn't understand how I always looked so much taller than him and was 6'4" range but then again his son also told him he was always listed that way and that was a shoe height although it stuck with his license for years
Canson said on 7/Aug/17
@Christian: well said. Not to mention they don't always ask for shoes to come off (happened with my wife). I was with her and she was measured at around 5'9" in shoes (don't recall which ones now tho) a couple hours out of bed maybe. I measured her myself barefoot as did a different doctor in the afternoon time at around 5'7 3/4 and and at night like still 5'7.7
Canson said on 7/Aug/17
@Christian: well said. Not to mention they don't always ask for shoes to come off (happened with my wife). I was with her and she was measured at around 5'9" in shoes a couple hours out of bed maybe. I measured her myself barefoot as did a different doctor in the afternoon time at around 5'7 3/4 and and at night like still 5'7.7
Sally said on 7/Aug/17
@ Christian

Hi Christian, I do realize you were not calling me "ridiculous" but rather that you were directing your comment towards my statement that "The average man in central Wisconsin is 5'11"-6'0". I also did not mean to imply that you are ridiculous. I simply disagreed with your comment that the average man in central Wisconsin is 5'9.5".
I did not know the US average official measured height for white men between the ages of 20-39 is 5'10". Why is it so hard to believe that a certain region of the country could be 1-1.5"s taller than another region? It's my understanding that southern European heights vary from northern Eauropean heights. We are a very homogeneous area.
James Edward Crowley Maximus Meridi said on 7/Aug/17
Rob how far are you from your goal weight of 160 pounds how much weight have you lost recently.
Editor Rob: just sitting on 177 pound range over last week.
Christian-6'5 3/8" said on 7/Aug/17
insomniak said on 6/Aug/17
@Christian you continually contradict yourself. You said you live California and you feel the average there is half an inch taller than Florida, but I can say with certainty that isn't the case there'll be way more minorities in California than in Florida it's a much bigger state. As someone who's lived in both states the average is very similar and there are a lot of minorities in both states. Also I have a better reference for judging height my sister is 5'8 it'd be hard for a 6'5 guy such as yourself to accurately gauge the average height, I'm 199cm and it's difficult to gauge the height of anyone below my eye level of 6'2.

------

When did I ever say I felt that California's a half inch taller than Florida? Here's my original comment:
"Christian-6'5 3/8 said on 30/Jul/17

@Sally

I live in California, but I visited Wisconsin several times as well as other vast majority white areas, and the average there is nowhere near 5'11-6'0". I would say around 5'9.5" based on my experiences. And Florida isn't too far off either, I would say around 5'8.5"-5'9" similar to California."

I was saying that Florida's similar to Cali, both around 5'8.5"-5'9" on average. The 5'9.5" I was referring to was for Wisconsin and other predominantly white areas. Nowhere did I ever said that Cali's a half inch taller than Florida. Don't put random words in my mouth. And, even at 196-197cm, I have a pretty good judgement for height and can easily tell apart a 5'8" from a 5'9" person.
Celebheights 6'1.5 said on 7/Aug/17
The average male height in Wisconsin is definitely not 5'11", just as 6'0" is completely ridiculous. It probably is slightly taller than it is in the average state. I've even read claims from people that the average Minnesota male averages 6'1"-6'2", which is even more absurd.
Sally said on 7/Aug/17
@ Don't know what to claim (5'11)

In regard to my post to Christian where I commented "There is no way the average is 5'9.5" as you suggest, because that would mean there are as many 5'7.5" men as 5'11.5" men and that is simply not the case", you corrected me saying "That's not how averages work." I am certainly no mathematician. I was merely simplifying my comments regarding averages for the purposes of this discussion.

Sorry, but at the age of 20 and a current height of 182.3cm wake-up height and 180.5cm night-time height there is not a snowballs chance in Hell that you will grow to 185/183, let alone the taller heights you mention, unless you have a pituitary gland disorder. According to an endocrinologist I saw with my son approximately three years ago, most males reach their adult height before or during their 17th year.
Celebheights 6'1.5" said on 7/Aug/17
I think that 6'1" isn't any less ideal than 6'2" is for a male, despite what everybody on here claims. At 6'1", you're taller than at least 90% of the grown men out there (so you're fairly tall), and you're taller than about every woman. Most people who are 6'1" would easily get guessed at being 6'2" or even 6'3" (unless they have abysmal posture). 6'1" just sounds worse on paper than it actually is.
the Slav said on 7/Aug/17
Don't know what to claim (5'11) said on 6/Aug/17
if i am 20 and wake up 182.3cm and finish the day at 180.5, what are my chances of growing to the following waking up/sleeping heights

194/192

191/189

188/186

185/183


even the chance for you to reach 185/183 is slim to none, but why does it even matter? Your height is great already
Slim 182 cm said on 7/Aug/17
C-mo, you're really underestimating not only the average, but your own height, your 5'9.5 when slept/hydrated for sure. A 184 cm man is taller than 70-75% of the Dutch population, dude. The "6' isn't tall anymore arguement was really silly.
Slim 182 cm said on 7/Aug/17
Matt179, more like 3 cm. I guess they are just normal sized soles, not height increasing at all, they do look nice though.
Christian-6'5 3/8 said on 7/Aug/17
Sally said on 4/Aug/17
@ Christian & @ insomniak

Christian, you responded to my statement that the average man in central Wisconsin is 5'11"-6'0" by saying "the average there is nowhere near 5'11"-6'0." You stated the average was 5'9.5" based on your experiences. I will admit that the average is probably closer to the 5'11" range than the 6'0" range, but it is somewhere between those two figures. There is no way the average is 5'9.5" as you suggest, because that would mean there are am many 5'7.5" men as 5'11.5" men and that is simply not the case. That is ridiculous. I will again state that I am talking about a non-minority white population of men between the ages of 20-50.

------

Sally, did you know that the US average official measured height for white men between the ages of 20-39 is 5'10"? So how can you claim that the average is 5'11"-6'0"? Your statement was way more ridiculous than mine. My estimation of a 5'9.5" average makes sense because a lot of patients at the doctors get measured earlier in the day, so many of them might've measured a quarter or half inch taller than what they are throughout the rest of the day. I hope you don't misunderstand me and think that I called you ridiculous. I didn't, I just said your statement of a 5'11"-6'0" average was.
Sally said on 7/Aug/17
@ Leah

Hello Leah, your night height of 176.5 cm translates to a hair under 5'9.5". I realize centimeters are more precise, but I am more familiar with the imperial system. I measured exactly 5'11.5" during the noon hour at my local clinic. I am unsure of my exact night height because one evening I had my children measure me by making marks on the wall, and they fell between 181 and 183 cm. None were exactly the same. I didn't really care enough to try again. How do you like being 176.5 cm?
Sally said on 6/Aug/17
@ Christian & @ insomniak

I realize you were addressing @ insomniak specifically about his home state of Florida. I see how it might look like I was cherry picking your quote. But I would have made my comment to you whether you were talking about Florida, Utah, or any other US state. Your exact quote was "US national measured average is 5'9", so you can't say the average is 5'9"-5'10", especially not in a state like Florida where there are a lot of Hispanics." I think what threw me off was your use of the word "especially". By using the word "especially", one could conclude you were suggesting no US state could vary from the US average "especially" Florida. By that logic, the US national average could not differ from the world average. I do understand what you are saying to insomniak about it being highly improbable for a state like Florida, which has a high number of Hispanics, to have an average higher than the US average.

Christian, let's agree to disagree on how tall the average male height is in central Wisconsin. I am regretting ever responding to @ Kaneff's initial post. I didn't realize what a "hot button" topic this was. This is a trivial subject to debate. I seriously doubt anybody out there even cares.
Matt179 said on 6/Aug/17
@Doom those airmax90 give 1.35 of height.

One of the highest sneaker.
Sally said on 6/Aug/17
@ Some Guy
I do not have any scientific evidence of a 5'11"-6'0" male average or a 5'6" female average for central Wisconsin. I am specifically stating central Wisconsin cities not Wisconsin as a whole. At 5'11.5" I am close in height to many men and feel like I can accurately assess their height. I do realize "eyeballing" someone to assess their height is not a recognized scientific method though.
179cm said on 6/Aug/17
It can certainly seem like the average is 6'0", but you've got to remember that 15-20% of men are 6 feet or taller, which isn't an insignificant percentage. At 179cm, around 35% of guys are my height or taller, so it isn't as if I'm going to be one of the tallest people around.
insomniak said on 6/Aug/17
@Christian you continually contradict yourself. You said you live California and you feel the average there is half an inch taller than Florida, but I can say with certainty that isn't the case there'll be way more minorities in California than in Florida it's a much bigger state. As someone who's lived in both states the average is very similar and there are a lot of minorities in both states. Also I have a better reference for judging height my sister is 5'8 it'd be hard for a 6'5 guy such as yourself to accurately gauge the average height, I'm 199cm and it's difficult to gauge the height of anyone below my eye level of 6'2.
c-mo said on 6/Aug/17
HonestSlovene said on 5/Aug/17
@c-mo Sorry man I'm not hating just telling my opinion based on measurements that were done. BTW you are 5'9.5" so hardly short but somewhere in the average range.

--------------------------

maybe I judged your post wrong but there are a lot of bitter haters on the internet . if you had no bad intentions I apologize for my reaction

I am about 5'9.25 . I can fall to 175.5cm at my very worst . most of the day I am in the 176 - 176.3cm range

I dont think I am short tbh. . even here in germany a decent amount of men are shorter than me and many are around my height

people also often guessed me 180cm in my life

I think 175cm - 181cm is the average range for a male . 172-174cm is below average but not really that short (172cm is approaching short range though and can be seen as upper short) while 182-184cm is above average but not tall (184cm is approaching tall and can maybe be categorized as tall ..but it also depends on the persons build)

as I said though my friend who I measured 183.5cm is not that much taller than me . the difference is really not that big I also compared us in the mirror . and when I stand in front of him when we talk I really dont notice that much difference. it is definitely not enough difference to say that he is a tall guy

he also doesnt look tall among other people . above average yes but not legit tall . just my opinion ...6'0 is above average but not tall

I think when you hit a legit 6'1 is when you enter the tall range which goes until 191cm or so and after that it becomes very tall
@6'1.5 said on 6/Aug/17
Sammy Derrick said on 4/Aug/17
Just out of curiosity, how much does height matter?Especially to women as far as physical attraction goes.Would a guy like Mark Ruffalo(5'7)be more attractive than a Bradley Cooper(6'1) if he could sprout 5 inches tomorrow???Personally height isn't much of an issue cause I find a certain lady(whose 5'10 AND 200LBS) quite attractive!!!
PS:I'm only 5'7-5'8(171cm-173cm)depending on the time of day.Here are a few pictures of myself, Click Here Click Here and I'd like to know whether I'm attractive or not...and WHETHER that would be affect by my height???(

You are definitely an attractive person. You have beautiful eyes and a neat nose.
Your height of 171 cm (5'7.5 ") will not be your fault, if only because if a huge number of girls ,who are shorter than you.
In addition, if you have a thin and good physique, this will be a great advantage.
G 5'11 said on 6/Aug/17
@Doom 1.2 inches is usually common from air maxes
Don't know what to claim (5'11) said on 6/Aug/17
if i am 20 and wake up 182.3cm and finish the day at 180.5, what are my chances of growing to the following waking up/sleeping heights

194/192

191/189

188/186

185/183
Don't know what to claim (5'11) said on 6/Aug/17
Sally said on 4/Aug/17

There is no way the average is 5'9.5" as you suggest, because that would mean there are am many 5'7.5" men as 5'11.5" men and that is simply not the case. That is ridiculous.

-----------

That's not how averages work.
James Edward Crowley Maximus Meridi said on 6/Aug/17
Rob What happened to the User Height it's gone i never realized it was gone until recently.
Editor Rob: it has been retired.
blazer said on 6/Aug/17
@Sammy Derrick,. You already had us guess your height and now you want us to guess your attractiveness? Height will matter to some people and not to others. My best advice would be to worry less about what others think and only worry about how you feel about yourself. Height and looks can't be changed so you have to accept who you are.
Slim 182 cm said on 6/Aug/17
Rob, ever thought of when the USA are ever going to convert to the metric system? I believe the states and 1 3rd world country are the only ones left...
Editor Rob: a lot of industry and science will be already using it, but I don't how long imperial will continue being a dominant system to the Americans. Could be a long time!

I store the height in feet/inches on this site, primarily because the biggest audience is Americans.
Blake said on 6/Aug/17
@Napi since I guess Rob isn't going to respond it is roughly an inch depending on how long your nose is
Christian-6'5 3/8" said on 6/Aug/17
Sally said on 3/Aug/17
@ Christian

It's interesting how you responded to @ insomniak by stating "US national measured average is 5'9", so you can't say the average is 5'9"-5'10"." By that logic, you can't say the US national average is 5'9", because the male global average is approximately 5'8". Obviously local averages vary due to genetics, nutrition, and even political influences. Look at North Korea.

-------

I said to him "you can't say the average is 5'9"-5'10", not in a state like FLORIDA where there are a lot of Hispanics". I was just referring to Florida, not other states and areas. You cherry picked my quote and took it out of context.
Some Guy said on 6/Aug/17
@Sally
Do you have any non-anecdotal evidence of a 5'11"-6'0" male average and 5'6" female average for Wisconsin?
Celebheights 6'1.5 said on 6/Aug/17
@Sammy There are a lot of factors that often get considered in male attractiveness:

1. Body-Most would prefer a 6'0" 180 pound muscular man.
2. Facial features
3. Posture-A man who stands up straight will generally appear as if they are confident. I have abysmal posture due to having Scoliosis, so I can't say much about this really.
4. Personality/intelligence

With that being said, your height shouldn't actually hinder you that much from finding a girlfriend. 5'7" really isn't that short, as it just looks bad on paper. You're taller than a fair amount of men, and taller than the vast majority of the women out there. How old are you if you don't mind me asking?
blazer said on 6/Aug/17
@Ben, why would you use such a weird object to measure yourself. You'd be better off measuring yourself with a potato! Just get a book or box..at least something with a 90Β° angle.
Celebheights 6'1.5 said on 6/Aug/17
I meant that I'm 4 CM taller than the doorhinge out of bed, implying that I wake up at over 6'2 1/2".
Doom said on 5/Aug/17
Hey Rob how much do you reckon these give

Click Here

They look like they'd give a little over an inch but im not so sure.
Blake said on 5/Aug/17
Rob, I was looking at the end of my tape measure and I noticed indents at the bottom small ones not a curve will this effect measurements?
Editor Rob: as long as it looks flat and sits reasonably flat, I wouldn't worry about it.
Jacky Huynh said on 5/Aug/17
Hey Rob, so you think the overall average Greek height is 174-175cm? That's about an inch taller than the average Portuguese and could be on par with Spain or Italy.

Being 5ft 7.5in (171cm), I probably feel slightly short in these countries, but not much.
Editor Rob: yes I believe it would be near that range. Mostly every self-reported study ends up with a bit of an inflated result.
Del Mar said on 5/Aug/17
@Animus
Yeah, 5'11.5" would be def be my imperial reference. Your bud was measured that in the military huh, wouldn't trust that, lol. Just kidding.
I guess we could look similar height yeah but if you stretch out I'm sure you could have called me out if I claimed 6' and we had same shoe sole size. I figured I'm actually just short of 6' even in the morning, measuring about 182.6-7, and lose about 1.3 cm during the day.
@G 5'11
It really does right? A friend of mine agreed that he doesn't look too much taller than me, maybe 3-4cm (that would be our eye level difference), but he has a big head and I measured him at a big 6'2.5" in the morning(!), so that was pretty surprising. He would be 6'1.5-75" in the evening I reckon. 6'2" is def a long wingspan range when you're 5'11", I guess if you have similar shoulder and eye level as myself I would guess you at more 5'11.25-5" range in the real. Never tried measure my own wingspan actually, from the height chart pic it could look like I'm about the same as my height or slightly above.
insomniak said on 5/Aug/17
@Christian, it's illogical for you to dismiss someone's estimate of the average height where they live if you don't live there and have no anecdotal experience, You also have to remember height is all about perception. it's entirely situational, you can't tell me that you see the same amount of heights every single day cause that doesn't sound right. For example, one day when standing in the bus I noticed most of the men were over six foot does that mean the average is six foot?no. I just happened to be in a bus with a **** ton of 6 footers. So for you to think you know the average of Netherlands just by visiting one specific location which may not be the tallest, is well counterintuitive.
Napi said on 5/Aug/17
@Sammy derrick: You ain't ugly bruh that's for sure you're pretty good looking and bro I thought you were a musician lol
James Edward Crowley said on 5/Aug/17
Rob what happened to the old layout the old height list I liked old one but the new one is not that bad any chance of bringing old height list back.
Editor Rob: do you mean the old a-z pages? If you go to A and click 'all', that is the simpler version of those pages without any thumbnails.
Johnson said on 5/Aug/17
I recall some funny information of a user measuring 5'8 nowadays told us in this section:

As a child my mother told me. When you grow older, your future girlfriend will look up to you, to a sort of a giant of 6 feet tall

Hehe
Christian-6'5 3/8 said on 5/Aug/17
@Bobby183.5cm

Around 6'5"-6'5.5", roughly my height most probably. The average player is listed 6'7" but most are measured early in the day with shoes, and some rounded up to the next inch.
Christian-6'5 3/8 said on 5/Aug/17
@Johan

I agree. It's the same reason why here in the US some believe that the average guy is 5'10-5'11" when in reality it's 5'9" at the most.

@insomniak

The measured national average is actually 5'9.25", and this comes from CDC, so it's as legit as you can get. And I doubt it's even quite 5'9.25", because a lot of patients get measured earlier in the day, and a few will even get measured with shoes. So the true average is likely around 5'8.75" or 5'9" max.
HonestSlovene said on 5/Aug/17
@Bobby Well the official figures for Greece are 178 cm for younger guys and 177 cm overall, which is pretty much the median in Europe. It could be a bit shorter but 5'7" is really impossible IMO, more like at least a strong 5'9" (5'9.5") or 176 cm.
HonestSlovene said on 5/Aug/17
@c-mo Sorry man I'm not hating just telling my opinion based on measurements that were done. BTW you are 5'9.5" so hardly short but somewhere in the average range.
Napi said on 4/Aug/17
How many cm is it from a tad below the middle of your nose to your eyeline rob?
Napi said on 4/Aug/17
@G 5'11 Ey bro, nah I meant the head of a 167 cm person. I had to do the research myself lol but I think theyd be 183 cm
Sammy Derrick said on 4/Aug/17
Just out of curiosity, how much does height matter?Especially to women as far as physical attraction goes.Would a guy like Mark Ruffalo(5'7)be more attractive than a Bradley Cooper(6'1) if he could sprout 5 inches tomorrow???Personally height isn't much of an issue cause I find a certain lady(whose 5'10 AND 200LBS) quite attractive!!!
PS:I'm only 5'7-5'8(171cm-173cm)depending on the time of day.Here are a few pictures of myself, Click Here Click Here and I'd like to know whether I'm attractive or not...and WHETHER that would be affect by my height???(
Canson said on 4/Aug/17
@bobby-183.5: I'd have to say the average for an NBA player no shoes is probably 6'5 range (6'7 in shoes) something like Christian 196.5's height
Canson said on 4/Aug/17
Everyone has a different view on average height in their local area or even country and a lot of variables come into play. I believe a lot is Dept of Motor Vehicles dependant as people's licenses are likely used in part at least. I live in Virginia just outside of the Nation's capital and I'd be curious to see here what it is in DC area. Id be interested to see what statistics would report being that I've seen a lot of people report a higher height on their drivers license than what they actually are. Most commonly in shoes but have seen some real doozies as well. Funniest was when I saw a 5'10 friend's license that said he was 6'1. He always claimed "5'11 and a half" which made him close enough to 6'0" until he broke down and admitted he's 5'10 to 5'10 and a half. At least he was honest because he did it right on the spot and admitted 5'11 and a half shoes
Tyson said on 4/Aug/17
@Rob So 5'8 1/8 or 5'8.25?
Editor Rob: anywhere in that range in 95% of photos.
Sally said on 4/Aug/17
@ Christian & @ insomniak

Christian, you responded to my statement that the average man in central Wisconsin is 5'11"-6'0" by saying "the average there is nowhere near 5'11"-6'0." You stated the average was 5'9.5" based on your experiences. I will admit that the average is probably closer to the 5'11" range than the 6'0" range, but it is somewhere between those two figures. There is no way the average is 5'9.5" as you suggest, because that would mean there are am many 5'7.5" men as 5'11.5" men and that is simply not the case. That is ridiculous. I will again state that I am talking about a non-minority white population of men between the ages of 20-50.
G 5'11 said on 4/Aug/17
@Del Mar, proportions and eye level really do fool people, I'm a weak 5'11 guy and I always get guessed taller then I really am. My proportions are those of a 6'2 guy (arm span) and I got long legs as well. I was even guessed as 6 feet before and until I went back to back with my friend he refused to believe I wasn't 6'0. I wish there was a way to grow like an inch or two taller it would be really cool.
Animus said on 4/Aug/17
@Del Mar

Well, you're basically a 5'11Β½" guy, so in many situations you will look identical to a six-footer, especially if you have good posture and decently thickly-soled shoes. I sometimes don't stand at my tallest, so we could look quite close in height. Whenever I wear some of my bigger sneakers, I look basically identical to a good friend of mine who is a strong six-foot-one guy (he was measured at 186cm by the military). My morning height is about 184Β½cm, maybe slightly more. I never measure straight out of bed, but in the afternoon and at night I'm almost always within a tiny fraction (~1/8) of six feet. I
Ben said on 4/Aug/17
Rob tried to measure myself using the bottom these: Click Here

Got 179 with both of them using the bottom and it's currently 5:20 pm. Just in case I always shave off a fraction from the results.

How accurate are they?
Editor Rob: I think there is room for a 1/4 inch range of error using something like that...
QiuTV said on 4/Aug/17
Hey rob, I usually lose 1inch from oob to afternoon.
Would I lose only maybe 0,75 with more back muscles and doing more sports?
(I dont do much sport)
Editor Rob: if you start doing a spine workout, you may well enable the discs to retain more water...but we are talking a small fraction.
Tyson said on 4/Aug/17
Rob in the Fan photos, Is your estimate counting you are 5'8, 5'8 1/8 or 5'8.25?
Editor Rob: I'm thinking of myself as just a tiny bit over 5ft 8, more like 173cm range.
sully said on 4/Aug/17
Hi Big Rob, my cell phone hasn't updated the Rob Paul height page since 21/July/2017. What can I do to fix this problem? Thanks
Editor Rob: unfortunately the rob paul page has been retired.
Mark(5'9.5 said on 3/Aug/17
Rob, quick question. I happen to have a spine an inch 'longer' than my legs. Is it possible to lose a bit more height than normal because of this?!
Editor Rob: yes, but other factors like the ability of the disc to rehydrate or retain water is also another factor.
Delvin chung said on 3/Aug/17
Whats the average height in the 1870's in canada / usa ?
Jacky Huynh said on 3/Aug/17
Thanks for your response Rob. I haven't been studying country average heights either. For this time, just focus on Greece and Portugal.

I had a feeling the Portuguese aren't very tall for Europe.

What about Greece? Would they be taller than Portugal's average? Or on par?
Editor Rob: for the young Greek man, he will average today about 177cm, so i would say overall average is 2-3cm less than that.
Leah said on 3/Aug/17
@Sally. I'm 176.5cm barefoot at night
Sally said on 3/Aug/17
@ Christian

It's interesting how you responded to @ insomniak by stating "US national measured average is 5'9", so you can't say the average is 5'9"-5'10"." By that logic, you can't say the US national average is 5'9", because the male global average is approximately 5'8". Obviously local averages vary due to genetics, nutrition, and even political influences. Look at North Korea.
Christian-6'5 3/8 said on 3/Aug/17
@Sally

I doubt that any area in US is on average as tall as the Netherlands. Even the average in Netherlands is about 5'11-6'0", so something doesn't seem right. Perhaps you were focusing mostly on tall people during the concert, maybe that's why you thought the average was taller than it really was?
G 5'11 said on 3/Aug/17
@Napi if 167 cm comes up to there nose then the other person would probably be between 173-175cm range
Johan said on 3/Aug/17
@Christian-6'5 3/8

People will believe what they want to, thats why my country ( legit 5'11"-6' average) has the reputation of having a 6'1" average. People have a distorted view of what a guy that height looks like and so they come to the Netherlands and see guys much taller than they expect.

From my experience of travelling in Europe there is not one other country as tall as we are, Belgium comes close and they were measured a few years back at 5'10.5", lately being reported as 181 cm....I would go with the former. France, Switzerland, Spain, Greece, Italy are all in the 5'9" range.
Germany seemed a taller country but more 5'10" than 5'11".
insomniak said on 2/Aug/17
@Christian I said discounting poorer areas as well as older men and other minorities. I believe the average Caucasian male in Florida is 5'9.5 also the u.s national average is 5'9.5 and no I don't go but what people claim I compare them to my sister. My sister is 173.5 measured she's 15 might I add so she may grow taller. Comparing her to other men while walking around she's very close to average at the same time still noticeably shorter. Often she will be nearly as tall as many men but I think the average Caucasian or African male will be close to 2 inches taller(although I should add she doesn't walk or stand tall so will probably be more 172cm in her usual bad posture).
179cm said on 2/Aug/17
TheGeorgester said on 29/Jul/17
Height really is such a pain in the arse. Wish it was possible to just have gone to the doctors during puberty and got some HDH. Ah well suppose I come from a small family and it's in my genes. 20 and 5 foot 7 is what I gotta just accept :P

5'7" isn't that bad. A lot of people outside of this site probably wouldn't even think of you as short.

Bobby, said on 29/Jul/17
@HonestSlovene, in Greece, 5'10 is actually tall, as the average appears to be 5'7 range. That's my opinion, but Rob also said that he doubts the Greek average is 5'10. Most averages are self-reported, not measured.

Yeah, people shouldn't get too caught up with the exact numbers listed on the internet, e.g. average in the Netherlands is 181cm. The figures are probably a rough estimate at best.
Del Mar said on 2/Aug/17
@Animus
You know, I did claim 6' until just a few months back in the belief that I really was 6', and I've claimed it for 11 years! This was my measurement in the military, and only a few months before those M Tussaud photos. I still wonder if I really was 6' and somehow lost 0.5" during my 20s although it's very unlikely. Given those shoes are just a 2-2.5 cm as I remember it, I'd also say I look a proper 6' in that height chart photo.
Usually I'm on eye and shoulder level with six footers so no one ever mistrusted my 6'claim, someone even suggesting that I could be 6'0.5" which I don't even measure in the morning lol. So you 're a proper 6 footer then, you like me would probably question my 6' claim unless my proportions would fool you. I've got fooled several times myself, head size makes it difficult sometimes. What is your morning height btw?
Jacky Huynh said on 2/Aug/17
Hey Rob, are you able to answer my question about Southern European average heights yet?
Editor Rob: I haven't really studied each countries average, so I can't really tell off-hand which is the shortest in Europe, but I've mostly read Portugal has an average no more than 5ft 8
Sandy Cowell said on 2/Aug/17
@ Sally - Hi Sally! I was touring around Bromley yesterday and every so often, I would pause to do a comment.
When I got home, I was too knackered to even eat, so I opened a can of cider and promptly went on to spill half of it!
I have one more day of this, though today's not quite so bad, and then I can relax for a bit. I have had to go out 6 out of 7 days a week since early June now, and it has been physical torture, something I never want to have to do again. I have scrunched up to 150cm and my legs are covered in bruises, just through the act of walking in pain.
I can't wait until tomorrow!
Have a great week, you and the kids!
Sally said on 2/Aug/17
@ Christian & @ insomnia

Correction- The average woman in central Wisconsin is a flat 5'6" with the average range from 5'4"-5'7".
Bobby183.5cm said on 2/Aug/17
Rob, i've asked this question before but you havent answered. What is the average height of an nba player without shoes?
Simon said on 2/Aug/17
Ok, I feel this is an important question. What is the general consensus as to how one should go about marking down one's height? Mid-day measurement? The average of morning and afternoon height? If 2,5 cm shrinkage is the norm, it really puts the situation into a perspective
Sally said on 2/Aug/17
@ Christian-6'5 3/8 & @ insomniak

Christian, allow me to clarify. In my previous post to @ Kaneff 6'0.25", I said the average man in central Wisconsin is 5'11"-6'0". In coming to this conclusion, I only considered areas I am familiar with in central Wisconsin. I am not considering southern Wisconsin cities such as Milwaukee, Racine, Kenosha, and Madison, which have high populations of Hispanics and a small amount of Asians thus lowering the average. I do realize many Hispanics and Asians are taller than previous generations. I also am not including the city of Green Bay as many minorities now live there. I further narrowed down my "average" group to include only men in the prime of their lives from approximately 20-50. I am not including older people who may have lost height or simply didn't reach the taller heights that younger generations have. I did specifically say central Wisconsin cities. These small cities would include Wausau, Antigo, Wisconsin Rapids, and Waupaca. These areas are almost exclusively northern-European white with the exception of a Hmong population living in the Wausau area. Many people in this part of the state grew up on family farms or worked for farmers. Dairy products and protein remain dietary staples. We were physically active which, according to this site, increases growth.
I just returned home from a Lover Boy concert at the Marathon County Fair in Wausau, Wisconsin. Most attendees ranged in age from 45-55. While there were men around 5'8", there were also many men in the 6'1"-6'2" range. I also saw several women that were around my height of 5'11.5". Of course the vast majority of women were smaller. The average woman in this area is around 5'5"-5'6". I stand by my claim that the average male height in central Wisconsin is between 5'11"-6'0".
@ Insomniak, you are a citizen of Florida. I will not disagree with your response to @ Christian. I should have made it more clear that I was not talking about the average male height in Florida or even the city of Orlando. I was specifically talking about Walt Disney World, which is a true melting pot of nationalities, ethnicities, and religions. As I said before I haven't the slightest idea of the average height, but I felt super tall.
Napi said on 2/Aug/17
Hey, if 167 cm comes up to the middle of ones nose how tall would the taller person be?
Christian-6'5 3/8 said on 2/Aug/17
@insomniak

US national measured average is 5'9", so you can't say that the average is 5'9"-5'10", especially not in a state like Florida where there are a lot of Hispanics. Btw, you can't determine the average height by going along with people's own claims, because most people exaggerate their height or at least round up.
Animus said on 1/Aug/17
@Del Mar @Bobby

You could probably get away with claiming 6'0 even, if you are 5'11β…œ at night - a lot of guys shorter than you certainly claim it. A guy like me who is 6'0 even in the afternoon (and picks up on people's height) would probably notice that you are a bit shorter than a legit six-footer, but most guys who are legit six-footers claim 6'1, so you're probably in the clear.

If I were you, however, I would claim to be between 5'11 and 6'0. By the way, you look around 6'0 in the Tussaud-pic, but the camera angle makes it tricky to tell.
Usuario said on 1/Aug/17
Hi Rob.I'm 5ft 7.75in at my highest and 5ft 7in is my typical low.Which would be my height on your page if I were a celebrity?
Editor Rob: depends on how you looked in photos/films/or in person, but I doubt you'd end up lower than 5ft 7, with a chance ofa strong 5ft 7 listing like 7.25
G 5'11 said on 1/Aug/17
@slim 182 cm I agree except sometimes you can argue 4 inches is towering someone depending on the situation. But you're still right
Bobby, said on 1/Aug/17
@Slim 182 cm, I would say that 6 inches is a towering difference, and that 10 inches is completely dwarfing someone.
Del Mar said on 1/Aug/17
@Bobby
Yeah I agree that would be most precise as no one really says 5'11.38", and 5'11 1/3" would be slightly too short.I'm close enough to 5'11 1/2" for about 6-7 hours after wake up at 181,5 cm which is good enough, however I don't like to round it up to 182 and would either say 181,5 or 181 cm when giving my height in cm' s. Btw, Tom Hanks doll looks strangely shorter than me, feel free to see my comment on the Hanks page for picture. Always made me wonder why they would downgrade the doll, I take it they more commonly upgrade those M Tussaud dolls
insomniak said on 1/Aug/17
@Christian I live in Florida and depending on where you go the average can vary as some poorer minorities can lower the average. But in richer areas the average is significantly taller. I assure you as someone who has l lived here his entire life Florida average is 5'9-5'10. Even the 3rd gen Latinos and Asians living here have gotten taller cause of better nutrition. you'll see plenty of 6ft+ minorities.
Nik said on 1/Aug/17
@ Sandy Cowell.@ Sally

I have got a comment to send to you both tonight.

Sandy - I don't know what happened to the one on the 28th July, I thought I had sent it!
Bobby, said on 1/Aug/17
@Del Mar, I would claim 5'11.5 if that's your night height. No one would notice you're not bang on 5'11.5 at night.
James Edward Crowley said on 1/Aug/17
Rob are you planning to do any changes to this website like allowing users to give thumbs up and thumbs down to comments and also allow users to report comments they don't like.
Editor Rob: it's always a matter of time/benefit.
Sandy Cowell said on 1/Aug/17
@ Sally - Bless you! I will get back later tonight!
I am waiting for a bus!
Del Mar said on 1/Aug/17
Rob, given that the guy on the right side for the guy with the circle around his head is 6.05-75" range and the african guy in the middle is 6'2-2.25" range, how tall would you say the guy With the circle around is? Click Here
Editor Rob: doesn't seem like he'd be much taller than the 184-5 guy really.
Slim 182 cm said on 1/Aug/17
Bobby, I reckon 5 inches to tower someone and 9 inches to dwarf someone is well agreed upon.
Del Mar said on 1/Aug/17
@Animus
Yeah you're right about 5'11.38" is my night height, I might still be 5'11.5-75" range here. Given that Brad's dress shoes also could give a bit advantage over my sneaks, I do think the doll is quite correctly proportioned if Brad is in fact 5'11".
I was to link a height proof but I see I forgot the link Click Here. Also at M Tussaud in my sneaks
Mark(5'9.5 said on 31/Jul/17
Some people 'can' loose 4 cms depending on their body structure or posture. I should be losing slightly more than an inch, but i only lose about half an inch. (My legs are shorter than my spine which is why I can give a shorter impression standing than sitting.)
G 5'11 said on 31/Jul/17
@cody, no you have a very long reach lol, and I thought mine at 188cm was long, I'm like 180cm
G 5'11 said on 31/Jul/17
5'9 isn't short, I would say low average, 5'10 average, 5'11 above average at least in the states.
Tom said on 31/Jul/17
I went to Manchester Hospital with my father a week ago. The nurse measured me on a stadiometer. She said, I'm a bit over 6ft 1, 6ft 1 1/4, barefoot.
DruceLee said on 31/Jul/17
Hm Rob, can you increase height with corecting your pelvis tilt?
Editor Rob: well, some people do claim to have improved their height...actually I put up a quote on Sarah Douglas page recently, which she said she had a problem with hip and thought she had grew to 5ft 10...incidentally about time I met her for the top photo on that page...but she didn't really look 5ft 10 though

Heights are barefeet estimates, derived from quotations, official websites, agency resumes, in person encounters with actors at conventions and pictures/films.

Other vital statistics like weight, shoe or bra size measurements have been sourced from newspapers, books, resumes or social media.

Celebrity Fan Photos and Agency Pictures of stars are © to their respective owners.